SECOND republic Governor of Old Kaduna State is presently the national chairman of the Peoples Redemption Party, PRP and through that the chairman of the Conference of Nigerian Political Parties, CNPP. An unwavering advocate of socialism, he asserts in this interview that Nigeria’s inclination towards bourgeoisie capitalism is the cause of the country’s stunted development. Excerpts:

HOW would you as sess Nigeria after 51 years of independence?

It is unfortunate that the assessment is negative when you take into account the resources that became available during the period and the marginal achievement from the resources and also if you take into account how we started very well during the first republic. I think it then deteriorated until now when the state of the nation is virtually negative in virtually every respect.

So this is the situation and the most unfortunate thing is that the possibility of any reasonable improvement doesn’t seem to be on the card.

What would you blame for this negative assessment?

First of all and this is the problem from the beginning, right from colonial times, we have been having this but it couldn’t be understood properly and the situation is getting worse.

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The problem is the social economic system controlling all developments in the country which is based on self interest and it has produced a political leadership appropriate to it and that is why we have negative situation and in particular, the disabling level of corruption, stealing and criminal waste of resources and the impossibility of a peaceful democratic change through for instance credible election leading to a legitimate government.

Now, if the negative situation and in particular the social economic system which is based on selfish interest is changed to a social economic system based on public interest and enlightened self interest because the present level of self interest is rather destructive. It doesn’t help. It amounts to free for all.

Yes, we can change into a social economic system based on the supremacy of public interest and enlightened self interest. If we have that change then automatically, the leadership would be productive and patriotic and we will have a peaceful and progressive country. We will not be faced with the ugly situation now that we have in the form of collapsed public services in virtually every respect in the country.

We will take note of what happened during the first republic in particular when public interest was primary and self interest was secondary. Everybody did his best to make sure that the country was

moving towards an economic take off, in other words, the country was moving towards a situation where we could compete with other countries in all aspects of development.

But that is not the case now. Take the simplest of all things, food production. We have all the

resources to feed ourselves but what is happening? We depend almost 70% on imported food.

Given your assessment what are the options for the country now?

I have already said we have to change the socio economic system controlling development and by implication the political leadership produced by it. We now have a feudal political leadership, a

leadership that specializes in stealing! That is the case with every level of public service. We have to change this system and have a system which puts public interest first and enlightened interest

second which will produce a patriotic and humane political leadership rather than this grabbing political leadership, quarrelsome political leadership. We should change the capitalist system and replace it with a non_capitalist system even if it is not socialist.

Can you give an example of a country you have in mind?

First of all, let us think of Nigeria. What can we have in place of what we now have? I am the national chairman of the Peoples Redemption Party and the party has an ideological position and that is my position and that is what we are propagating.

The party believes in socialist reconstruction of Nigeria starting with the leading role of the state in the economy to ensure peace, equality, the dignity of human person and progressive even development throughout the country.

Critics will say that the state has failed in managing resources. The example of the private telecommunication companies and NITEL comes to mind?

But at what cost? That is the issue. First of all let us deal with the role of the state in the economy. Now, all the relative achievements we have made in Nigeria starting with the Nigeria Railway, starting with agriculture, with our education, the foundation that was used to get to such heights was based on the leading role of the state in the economy, and in fact, in the leading role of the state in everything. It was later that this disabling level of corruption, stealing and waste that emerged and destroyed everything.

Where is the Nigerian Railway? Are we better off without the Nigerian Railway? Has the transport system brought about through privatization and undermining the Nigerian Railway improved the situation for the country? No!

The best comparison is not in terms of impact. If we talk in terms of quantity then what you are saying about telecommunications may be right. But what we are talking about is quality. Take for example up till the end of the first republic, there was stability in economic development, everybody could see what was happening.

Stability in economic system

There was stability in the economic system, there was stability in the social system, there were problems quite alright, but there were concrete and clear achievements that you could see. For instance take the achievements during colonial times and throughout the first republic, compare them with the achievements with the second republic till date and take into account the resources that were available, particularly oil money. Where is the money? Can you see it on the ground?

You come from a state and you know that that your state gets billions every year from federal allocation alone, when you go round the state do you see evidence of the billions?

That was not the case during colonial times and the first republic. At that time you could believe what the government said unlike today when you cant believe government, you cant believe fiscal records.

Then whenever the budget came out whatever was allocated to agriculture, to roads you could see it. Whatever the government said it was doing you could see it, but today you cant even read the budget. This was not the case during colonial times and the first republic. The rot started from the second republic. All this rot, even this disabling level of stealing and corruption started from Second Republic.

For instance, in the case of the Second Republic, the gigantic waste of resources by the NPN government in particular the construction of post offices in the bush, the construction of housing estates in the bush. Can you imagine that happening during colonial times and in the first republic?

Take also the case of Babangida, the gigantic waste in building party headquarters and these are examples that everybody can verify today.

The present administration is now promoting a transformation agenda. Do you see the administration succeeding?

First of all, he is talking in English. During colonial times and the first republic if a leader talked about transformation you knew immediately what he meant and what it was for the people. But can you say what he (Jonathan) means by transformation? If you are a university lecturer or some intellectual, you can know that it means changing things.

But do you see any evidence of it? He has been President of Nigeria for almost one and a half years and during that time can imagine the oil money in dollars that Nigeria got. Do you see any evidence of it on the ground? Then how can we trust him when he talks about transformation?

He talked about four issues he would pay attention to after he was sworn in after the death of Yar‘Adua: first security. In particular he mentioned the situation in Plateau. Has anything happened about it? He talked about doing something about corruption? Is he helping the anti-corruption agencies or is he starting the anti-corruption war with securing clearance from EFCC because just recently the EFCC gave him a clean bill of health.

What of education? Look at the state of education now, everything is going from bad to worse. Look at the issue of remuneration of workers under his transformative regime workers cannot even get the slave wage of N18,000 a month!

What is N18,000 a month with this low value of the naira? I think workers were very patriotic by asking for only N52,000 a month and they were offered N18,000 a month which is slave wage and even that cannot even be paid. And they have now had to go on strike. So with what is he going to transform? Is he going to transform with words of mouth without the workers?

How can workers who are virtually slaves help you in transforming? It is not possible!

A final word on this anniversary?

Nigerians should know that they are in a terrible state of affairs where anything can happen. We hope for the best and that is mere hope and we have to rely on concrete reality. Nigerians have to stand up and protect themselves, their rights and their country by any means. This is what others did under the same condition in which we are now. This is what they did to liberate themselves, they should not for ever be lamenting the situation, we should do something about it.